coal box wagon (as used on the TVR in 1851)

[andrewnummelin]

For part of the Scalefour Society lockdown challenge I've decided to have a go at making a model of a wagon for which I have had a drawing (from the OPC/BR venture) for a very long time. I've just acquired some new tools so may have a go at making some more suitable wheels to get on with finishing it but while I practice I thought I'd try a bit more research.

coalbox.jpg

I'm guessing the boxes would have been finished in black, but what else? Were these owned by the TVR or by traders? I assume they should carry the owner's name and number. I've never seen other illustrations of such items on the TVR but there is a photo of coal box wagons on the VoNR, but not clear enough to show any lettering.

coalboxes.jpg

The drawing of the wagon and boxes has very detailed dimensions but unfortunately the lower one of two different design boxes only has some faint annotation of sizes of a few small components so is difficult to scale; but they appear slightly longer and wider than those on the wagon. However it is also clear that the ratio of width to length of the boxes is not the same as those on the wagon so is the lower drawing in error or were there different size wagons?

[glynrhedynog]

Whilst I accept the intention is to scratch build such a wagon, some help may be found in a kit for an Ince Wagon Co three box coal wagon manufactured in the 51L range. There are some helpful notes but known users listed all seem to come from Red Rose territory. 51L are marketed by Wizard Models who also do a wide range of components See www.wizardmodels.co.uk

[andrewnummelin]

Whilst I accept the intention is to scratch build such a wagon, some help may be found in a kit for an Ince Wagon Co three box coal wagon manufactured in the 51L range. There are some helpful notes but known users listed all seem to come from Red Rose territory. 51L are marketed by Wizard Models who also do a wide range of components See www.wizardmodels.co.uk

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately the kit is of much more modern design (as illustrated in the book on Ince). As the concept was in use for around 100 years I’m sure there must have been many different designs, especially in the early years.

Clearly such boxes were popular in NW England for bunkering, but was it just there? In South Wales was bunkering done using the wagon hoists used for coal exports, or were there separate facilities?

[wokmad]

Bunkering at Port Talbot was carried out using the coal hoists and, after 1915, the belt conveyors.
Things were very different at Milford Haven, where almost all the bunkering was of the fishing fleet. This was initially mostly done manually although the Dock Co. did provide a 20T crane in 1902 capable a hoisting wagons and depositing coal on board a vessel alongside. A conveyor was added in the mid-1920s and a modern 20T hoist in 1931.
Robin Simmonds

[Wagonworks_andy]

I have these two pictures from Fishgard Harbour.

GWR Fishgard2.jpg

GWR Fishgard1.jpg

[andrewnummelin]

I have these two pictures from Fishgard Harbour.GWR Fishgard2.jpgGWR Fishgard1.jpg

Fascinating, I’ve never seen photos of these before.
Does anyone have information on their use, particularly, the period?