WRRC Forum

1 Has anyone access to Len Tavendars book "Coal Traders Wagons" - v scarce!. If so could you please let me know the info for the 3 Ocean wagons contained - wagon numbers, colour, build date and whether any of them have the number under the "Ocean" rather than the more normal to me position of centred over the "E". I am getting suspicous that the Hornby model of 921 is wrong both in this, no end doors, and its colour (brown).

2. Are (or rather were) there any Ocean wagons without end doors; if there were they would not be welcome at the docks I guess but could have been used to coal business inland.

3 917 appears in "British Goods wagons" page 57. When was it built?

3 1987, 2407 and 3062 appear in various colliery photos

4. 4783 appears in "The 4mm wagon"page 45. 4817, built in July 1897, Tare 5T 18.3 cwt, is on line, 4724, apparentlythe first of a batch of 400 wagons from GCW, to 4728 were available from Cambrian models (no end doors)

5. 7204 appears in Turton vol 3 page 99, HMRS ABH828, also is available from POWsides, and is faced by (1(6 or 9?)09 on page98.

6 17107 was available from Trix, possibly the same type as "The 4mm Wagon" page 45 lower. (With end doors). When was this built - after 1923 I guess.

There were obviously many more wagons than listed; Treherbert, Lady Margaret coliery, alone could cope with 160 loaded, 110 empty and 45 others.

Tavender, Len; Coal Trade Wagons;
N694 p 34 - 1987 10T, 4 plank, side & end doors, dumb buffers one end, number on side above and below E
7204 12T, 7 plank, side & end doors period given as "inter war years", number above E and bottom left on side, top of end
N603 p 52 - 5615 13T, 6 plank, side & end doors, number above E

Page, James; Rails in the Valleys; page 26
508 4 plank, side & end doors, number above E
1450 4 plank, side & end doors, number above E
others have end but no side doors,

Modellers BackTrack Vol 3 no 6 Feb/March 1994 316
7739 10T, 5 plank, side & end doors, number over E

Donovan, Charles; The Welsh Railways Archive, vol. I, No. 1, (May 1990), p. 3
1128 8T 6 plank, end door only, number bottom left of centre, Gloucester photo 286

Watts, A.J.; Private Owner Wagons from the Ince Waggon & Ironworks Co. p. 162
2292 10T, 6 plank, side & end doors, number bottom left, black white letters

Hurst Nelson photo 19/37
5645 12T 6p side and end doors, number above and below E and at top of end ("photographic grey" so livery must be uncertain)


The HMRS photo collection includes several Ocean wagons - all appear to have side and end doors. The only livery noted is black with white letters. 5 are illustrated on line.
917 was photographed May 1893. 4817 (not illustrated on line) was 10T 6 plank with side and end doors, black with number above E.

Thanks for that; I wonder how many there were in total!. I am suspicous of the number of 17107

I get 4817 at Cardiff Docks from a google search "Ocean 4817 wagon" 2nd or 3rd link; the earlier Slaters link gives the batch information.

Regards

Basil