queries on old photos

[0062]

Regarding the second photo (at Ebbw Vale Low Level) I suggest that these carriages may well be ex-Monmouthshire Railway & Canal Co vehicles. Unfortunately details of carriages from this company are very scant. Any thoughts from anyone else? [Alastair Warrington]

[Rhobat Bryn]

I'd like to refer back to the third photo of the viaduct included in Andrew's posting coming from the Gerald Davies collection.

It shows the guard's van as being immediately behind the engine which may solve a problem I've been mulling over regarding the pick-up goods on the Barry Main Line.

The Barry Pick-up would have left Barry Goods Shed and proceeded directed to Pwllgwaun Yard in Pontypridd with the brake van at the end of the train. The problem I have had is how did they succeed in repositioning the van at the other end of the train for the down journey given the somewhat restrictive layout at Pwllgwaun? The other part of the equation is that all the yards south of Pwllgwaun were designed for down workings. So let me posit this. If the brake van were positioned immediately behind the loco then there would be no need to reposition it for the down journey. The loco would simply have to be positioned at the brake van end of the train before proceeding. This would be possible using the runround facility on the main line adjacent to Pwllgwaun. It would also mean that as the pick-up made its down to Barry, it would simply have to reverse into the yard, drop off vans for that station, collect any new vans and attach to the tail of the train. Again decoupling the brake van would not be necessary. So that's the theory. Now I don't know whether this was permitted under regulations but it does offer a workable explanation of how the pick-up goods could have worked. It's also worth bearing in mind that, with the exception of Pontypridd, none of the stations served had large population centres. In addition, Trefforest did not have a goods yard so would probably have been served from Pwllgwaun. Therefore, compared to the coal trains where holding back the weight of the wagons on their downward journey would have been essential, would it have been so necessary to have the brake van at the tail of a pick-up goods which would probably have comprised about ten vans at the most?

I would be grateful to hear your thoughts on the matter.

[andrewnummelin]

I agree with Noel.
I would add two extra possibilities (depending on gradients in the area that would determine where one could leave parts of a train standing on the main line)
- run on to the exchange sidings, run round and return on the down line (I assume there were crossovers at both ends)
- run round using the crossover to the south of Pwllgwaun yard (shown on the 1919 OS map https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/306816 ... /12/101077 )

[Rhobat Bryn]

My solution would be:
1) The train arrives at Pwllgwaun with the brake van at the rear and propels into the yard.
2) The initial shunt puts the van at the other end, next to the loco, which can be done in more than one way.
3) Arriving traffic is placed and outbound traffic, including that for yards serviced on the return journey, collected. This leaves the train with the van at the correct end for the return journey, but the loco at the wrong end.
4) The loop on the headshunt is used to run round the train, the train is propelled out onto the up line and uses the trailing slip in the yard access to depart right line.

I'd like to break these movements down if I may. I'm also looking at Cooke's Section 46B (1908) as well as the 25 inch OS map (1915). In terms of propelling the pick-up goods into the yard, there were two choices, the longer siding to the west of and just behind the goods shed and the shorter siding to the east and on the road loading side of the shed.

Sied Pwllgwaun ochr y rheilffordd.png

The picture above shows, I believe, Pwllgwaun good shed from the railway side with the longer siding in view. It's somewhat blurred by virtue of being a close-up but I think it's possible to make out a canopy which would suggest a platform underneath. There are also shadows under the canopy which may be doors or possibly windows.

I am assuming that this was the siding which was used to load or unload goods into the shed with the road loading on the other side of the building. Therefore in order to move the wagons into that siding without the brake van, the train would have had to be propelled into the east siding, the brake van uncoupled, the rest of the train shunted into the headshunt to the north of the goods shed and then reversed back into goods platform line. The question therefore is where were the wagons for collection kept in the yard.

[Rhobat Bryn]

Here is a slightly clearer picture from a similar point of view.

Sied Pwllgwaun (2).png

[philp]

Couple of points:
1. My compliments to all who have contributed to the discussions - I don't know how you have all gained such a detailed knowledge but most interesting, Thank You.
2. My WRRC interest is tracing family members who worked the TVR set-up at Cardiff and Porth, drivers Henry and Harry Phillips, my GF(ather) and his son, I have details of duties, but only one picture of GF after he retired, by 1938. If any of the collection(s) now held have named and/or dated pics of loco staff that include them I would be most interested to see (at Rhyderin/e-mail);
3. I'm based 15 mins from the Gwilli railway who are restoring a TVR engine, if anyone more distant needs pics I'm happy to get them - define what you need as I am not a rail geek just love the memories and pleasure they invoke. Philp.