Cambrian Railways gunpowder vans

[NeilB]

Some while ago I have a recollection of seeing a photo in a book of a Cambrian iron bodied gunpowder van, much like the Great Western "Minks". I am fairly sure it gave some details of the livery, but despite looking through all the sources I can lay my hands on I've been unable to locate the book.

Can anyone suggest where I might find both a photo of one of these vans and also details of the livery, please? I have a vague recollection of being told they were painted red, but I may be completely mistaken.

Neil Burgess

[dragonman]

Hi Neil,

The HMRS book 'All about Iron Minks', by, among others, Mike Lloyd, has a photo on page 34 of a Cambrian Gunpowder van.

It gives details that there were two built in 1905, both lasting till 1957 in traffic.

As far as I can tell, dimensionally they was identical to the GW vans, but with straight side stanchions, rather than these being tucked under to the solebars.

Julian Wynn, now Dragon Models, is investigating the possibilities of some small castings to convert our Minerva model to the Cambrian version, but he has only just started!!!

No information re livery I'm afraid.

Best wishes

Chris

[NeilB]

Thanks Chris; that's most helpful.

[Noel]

The following are secondary sources at best, but may be of interest:

http://www.raymondwalley.com/wagons/other/cam-gunpowder.html#.Ws4WAkxFz1c
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/131770-cambrian-railways-rolling-stock/

Powsides do transfers:

http://www.powsides.co.uk/www.powsides.co.uk/info.php?p=10&cat=168692

Dapol used a black livery for their version, for what it's worth, but with similar layout.

Noel

[andrewnummelin]

Great Western Way says the livery was probably red on the basis of a letter from W.E Morris to Mike Lloyd dated 30 Sep 1970 (so hardly contemporary).
The published photo certainly shows very dark (black) shaded lettering on a dark (red?) body.
The HMRS can supply copies of the photo https://hmrs.org.uk/catalog/product/view/id/309821/s/7t-gunpowder-van-camrys-139-op-side-built-oswestry-1905-became-gwr-101633-condemned-07-1957/category/19/ and also a general arrangement drawing https://hmrs.org.uk/drawings/7-ton-gunpowder-9ft-w-b-19ft-o-a.html. Perhaps the Circle also has a copy of this.

[NeilB]

Thanks very much for that, Noel; most helpful.

In a moment of inspiration I thought to look in the second volume of Christiansen & Miller's history of the Cambrian [David & Charles, c. 1968] and sure enough there in pl. 32 was the photo I had been thinking of, a Cambrian official view of van no. 139, presumably as built in 1905. A note on p. 140 tells me that the vans were plain black, yet Raymond Whalley and PowSides clearly beg to differ and have a rather fetching red!

I think this may be another case of paying your money and taking your choice ...

[NeilB]

Thanks also to Andrew; I think the HMRS photo may be the one in Christiansen & Miller. One of these days I'm going to root through the HMRS collection of Cambrian drawings, but work keeps getting in the way!

[Noel]

The published photo certainly shows very dark (black) shaded lettering on a dark (red?) body.

I don't have any photographs, so cannot be certain, but the implication of Andrew's sentence above would seem to be that the background cannot be black, as the shading would not show...

Noel

[andrewnummelin]

Regret my scanner is buried during work on the garage so I've just taken photos of the illustrations in three books (all are clearly from the same original).

GWW.jpg (189.19 KiB) Viewed 713 times

from Great Western Way

AIM.jpg (113.03 KiB) Viewed 713 times

from All About Iron Minks

C&M.jpg (118.96 KiB) Viewed 713 times

from Christiansen & Miller

I'd guess from these that the body was lighter than the shading & the underframe and that the roof was very light. But photo processing, printing and computers can play tricks, so you may make your own assessments.

[NeilB]

Well, thanks again gentlemen; it certainly looks like a red body is the one to aim for. I agree that judging these things from black and white photos can be difficult, but I think those above look pretty convincing.

Neil