queries on old photos

Locomotives, coaches, and wagons

Re: queries on old photos

Postby Menelaus » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:17 pm

Noel, Rod - Andrew mentioned I am going to post these photos in the Newsletter. I would also like to include the conversation thus far so hope you don't mind if I include your names as correspondents? I can anonymise it if you prefer.

I will also ask if anyone out there can add any further detail and use it as a plug to encourage more folk to sign up to the forum.
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Re: queries on old photos

Postby Noel » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:51 pm

andrewnummelin wrote:The train is on the Eastern Valley down line so a banking engine would not be expected: if for adding braking I would have expected it to be in front.


Another possible answer has occurred to me - could the train could be an up train, but standing "wrong line" to let another one past? The visible 'up' signal is off, which might support this.

Menelaus wrote:Noel, Rod - Andrew mentioned I am going to post these photos in the Newsletter. I would also like to include the conversation thus far so hope you don't mind if I include your names as correspondents?


Fine by me.
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Re: queries on old photos

Postby Newport_rod » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:29 pm

Menelaus wrote:Noel, Rod - Andrew mentioned I am going to post these photos in the Newsletter. I would also like to include the conversation thus far so hope you don't mind if I include your names as correspondents? I can anonymise it if you prefer.


Great Rob, no problem at all. And OK to use my name.
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Re: queries on old photos

Postby andrewnummelin » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:32 am

Noel wrote:...
Another possible answer has occurred to me - could the train could be an up train, but standing "wrong line" to let another one past? The visible 'up' signal is off, which might support this.
...


Possible, but unlikely I think as the train is loaded, with wagons from companies working further up the valley, so almost certainly a down train. There's a brake van in the appropriate place too for a down train.
I'd wondered if the loco were there to help reverse the train into a layby siding, but there isn't one close by. The thought crossed my mind, when looking at the map of the area, was that the loco could facilitate picking up wagons at Trosnant Junction coming off the "third line" of the Taff Vale Extension line.

A couple of extra observations.
A nice mixture of wagons with differing buffer arrangements, and variations of wagon livery with lettering of Blaenavon wagons going on to the corner plates.
If the loco is really at the end of the train, what would the tail lamp arrangements be? A brake van at the end of a train would have normally had side lights: would these be removed if a banking engine were coupled to the train? In this particular photo the resolution is not good enough to be certain whether there are, or are not, side lights on the van.
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Re: queries on old photos

Postby Newport_rod » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:03 pm

And the GBVs at Pontsarn and at Pontsticill are very similar to the Mid Wales Railway Brake Van seen in this well known pic. Could the B&M and the MWR both have picked up similar vans picking through entrails of the collapsed Savin empire?
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Re: queries on old photos

Postby andrewnummelin » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:45 am

Newport_rod wrote:And the GBVs at Pontsarn and at Pontsticill are very similar to the Mid Wales Railway Brake Van seen in this well known pic. Could the B&M and the MWR both have picked up similar vans picking through entrails of the collapsed Savin empire?

My knowledge is deficient... I’d not seen this photo before. Thanks for posting it.
Photos of MWR stock and photos of dumb buffered brake vans are certainly not common.

Agree with your suggestion about Savin.

Could the van be a “standard” design of a wagon builder? If so it would br nice if a drawing turned up as it could be a fun modelling project. It seems from the photo that the surface of the framing is “flush” except for the bottom of the two central verticals that stand proud of the bottom rail. So one has to work out just how the tapering was arranged.
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Re: queries on old photos

Postby Newport_rod » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:06 pm

andrewnummelin wrote: it would br nice if a drawing turned up


I believe that Mike Lloyd produced a drawing, but what the basis of it was I don't know. There could well be a copy in Rhiwderyn.

No use to you Andrew, but a 3d printed version is available in 7mm (https://www.shapeways.com/product/2XLAS32L5/mid-wales-cambrian-rly-brake-van-kit?optionId=63060782 and in laser cut wood in 10mm http://sixteenmills.co.uk/. The latter may also be available in 7mm
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Re: queries on old photos

Postby Noel » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:36 pm

The Shapeways one is also available in 4mm. This link to RMWeb gives background and a larger version of the photo https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118524-mid-walescambrian-railways-brake-van-limited-run-of-ready-to-run/. The suggestion seems to be that this is a second hand MWR example, with the photo taken about 1904. It is of course possible that there were other owners between the MWR and the EVWR.

andrewnummelin wrote:It seems from the photo that the surface of the framing is “flush” except for the bottom of the two central verticals that stand proud of the bottom rail. So one has to work out just how the tapering was arranged.


I think it is just that the bottom rail is shallower than the rest of the framing, Andrew, rather than any taper. Note that in the model the bottom rail of the body [at floor level] is too big both in depth and height.
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