Taff Vale Railway models?

Preservation, Museums, Heritage Railways, and matters of general interest.

Taff Vale Railway models?

Postby andrewnummelin » Thu May 07, 2020 3:20 pm

The following query has come in to the Circle. Can anyone help with this? (I've also sent it directly to Basil as TVR super.)
Good morning

I wonder whether you may be able to help me with some research?

I have a scale model made in card of a Taff Vale locomotive and train made over 150 years ago. It was given to my great great aunt who was a companion to the wife of a gentleman who is alleged to have been a director of the TVR. My grandfather wrote a note which sits inside the case and reads:

"Made by an invalid gentleman, the Hon Edmund Petre, a director of the Taff or Keat Valley Railway and given to Aunt Sally about 1863"

I attach photos of the model which is in remarkable condition given its age. The locomotive nameplate says "Todtleben" which I believe is the name of a Russian general but the rolling stock is clearly lettered TVR.

I am trying to discover whether Mr Petre was indeed a director of the company and whether the model is of an actual locomotive and train from that period. I am a member of the Great Western Society and plan to donate the model to the Society's museum at Didcot but I am trying to obtain as much information about its background as I can.

I would welcome any help you may be able to give.

Yours sincerely

Malcolm Burgess
20200206_195648-999px.jpg
20200206_195648-999px.jpg (373.57 KiB) Viewed 501 times

20200501_081311-999px.jpg
20200501_081311-999px.jpg (290.26 KiB) Viewed 501 times

Regards,

Andrew Nummelin
Secretary
andrewnummelin
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: Taff Vale Railway models?

Postby andrewnummelin » Sun May 10, 2020 5:14 pm

Some additional info and photos.
On 2020-05-09 11:37, MALCOLM BURGESS wrote:
> Dear Andrew
>
> ... The GWS initial response was that the model was not of a Taff Vale train but I then sent further photos (attached) which made clear that the lettering on the rolling stock was definitely TVR. Apparently Stephensons built identical locomotives for a Russian railway and one theory is that Edmund Petre named his model after that connection rather than giving it the name of one of the Taff Vale locos even though he was a Taff Vale director. I cannot find any reference to Keat Valley Railway as noted on my grandfather's card. Does this ring any bells with you?
>
> Kind regards
>
> Malcolm
20200501_081307-999px.jpg
20200501_081307-999px.jpg (293.42 KiB) Viewed 469 times

20200501_081322-999px.jpg
20200501_081322-999px.jpg (317.54 KiB) Viewed 469 times

Regards,

Andrew Nummelin
Secretary
andrewnummelin
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: Taff Vale Railway models?

Postby Noel » Sun May 10, 2020 8:45 pm

There were two generals of this name, both in Russian service. The more likely seems to be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Totleben, who visited Britain in 1856, which may explain the name on the loco.

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to determine the prototype gauge of the models?
Noel
User avatar
Noel
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Taff Vale Railway models?

Postby andrewnummelin » Mon May 11, 2020 9:48 am

Noel wrote:There were two generals of this name, both in Russian service. The more likely seems to be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Totleben, who visited Britain in 1856, which may explain the name on the loco.

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to determine the prototype gauge of the models?

I'll pass your message on.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin
Secretary
andrewnummelin
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: Taff Vale Railway models?

Postby andrewnummelin » Wed May 20, 2020 9:58 am

I received the following from Malcolm.
Hi Andrew

I have done a little more delving and have discovered that the Petre connected to my great great aunt was Edmund George Petre (b1829 - d1889, son of William Francis, 11th Baron Petre,). Edmund's sister Agnes was the lady to whom my aunt was either a companion or secretary. Agnes married Charles Clifford, 8th Baron Clifford of Chudleigh. The last connection enabled me to identify Edmund George.

My research on Edmund George Petre has revealed little about his life so it seems likely that any railway connection was as per the research by Nigel Attwood and Gerry Nichols, i.e.the Shrewsbury and Birmingham/London Birmingham Railways. This suggests that TVR is likely to relate to the Trent Valley Railway. Perhaps his interest in railways was triggered by his father's resistance to the ECR!

Please pass my thanks to all those who took the trouble to undertake research. The reference to the Taff Vale seems to be an error within my family, perhaps because details were taken verbally rather than by document.

I might now enquire whether the NRM might be interested in the model because it really is too good to be hidden in my study.

With kind regards

Malcolm
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin
Secretary
andrewnummelin
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:06 pm


Return to Outside the Circle

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron