Theoretical Welsh Network

The contemporary Railway scene in Wales.

Theoretical Welsh Network

Postby spencer pugh » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:42 pm

Since retiring, my hobby has been to try to produce a theoretical railway network for the whole of Wales, based upon the use and re-use of existing and disused lines. I attach a copy of my work to date (together with a few tongue-in-cheek route changes of my own!).
As I am an overseas member I have limited opportunities to meet and exchange ideas with other enthusiasts or to undertake field studies. My work has therefore been based almost entirely on books and information available on the internet.
I hope that some members may find the results of my hobby interesting, and I welcome comments and suggestions for correction or improvement.
1703-10 - Network [LU-A2].pdf
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Re: Theoretical Welsh Network

Postby Newport_rod » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:16 pm

An interesting idea Spencer - thanks for sharing it.

I was surprised to see that you didn't include the extant B&MR between Bassaleg and Machen, or even revive the B&M through to Caerffili or Dowlais. And are you proposing a bridge over or a tunnel under the Cleddau to connect Pembroke Dock and Neyland?

Rod
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Re: Theoretical Welsh Network

Postby Angus » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:23 pm

Great fun, anyway! I'm glad to see Red Wharf Bay in the network, for example.

In the south-east, I'd be inclined to re-re-name Talyllyn Junction from Brecon (Talyllyn) to Brecon Parkway and I'd love to be sent a postcard showing a modern high speed diesel crossing a rebuilt Brecon viaduct en route to Cradoc and all stations west. A "tilting train" would be the ideal on that route.

My greatest pleasure, however, is the revival of the "Vale of Crickhowell Railway" as a major route link.

A delightful pipedream, but,alas, about 150 years too late.
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Re: Theoretical Welsh Network

Postby spencer pugh » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:37 am

I was surprised to see that you didn't include the extant B&MR between Bassaleg and Machen, or even revive the B&M through to Caerffili or Dowlais. And are you proposing a bridge over or a tunnel under the Cleddau to connect Pembroke Dock and Neyland?


Rod,
With regard to the B+MR and B+M it's a challenge to fit all of these SW valleys into the diagram and still keep it at a reasonable size! I'll keep trying!
I was under the impression that there was once a rail bridge connecting Pembroke Dock and Neyland. Does anyone have any information that I can tap into?

Spencer
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Re: Theoretical Welsh Network

Postby spencer pugh » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:42 am

Angus Wrote:- My greatest pleasure, however, is the revival of the "Vale of Crickhowell Railway" as a major route link.


Angus,

Can you point me in the direction of any information on the Vale of Crickhowell Railway. And be strong - it's never too late!

Spencer
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Re: Theoretical Welsh Network

Postby Newport_rod » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:56 pm

spencer pugh wrote:

I was under the impression that there was once a rail bridge connecting Pembroke Dock and Neyland.

Spencer
There was a ferry service between the two towns from 1858 to 1975, when it was superseded by the current road bridge, but never a rail connection.
Rod
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Re: Theoretical Welsh Network

Postby Noel » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:48 pm

spencer pugh wrote:Can you point me in the direction of any information on the Vale of Crickhowell Railway.


If you put Vale of Crickhowell Railway into your favoured search engine you will get a few references to the archives which hold what paperwork there is. The line was never built.
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Re: Theoretical Welsh Network

Postby Angus » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:58 pm

."The Vale of Crickhowell Railway Act, 1864" proposed a line to run from a junction with the Merthyr, Tredegar and Abergavenny Railway in Abergavenny then following the River Usk to Crickhowell. An extension was then planned to extend the line from Crickhowell to a junction with the Brecon & Merthyr Railway near Talybont on Usk, thus linking it to Brecon, and to other lines via Talyllyn Junction.
The planned route is through beautiful scenery, but, as has been stated, nothing happened,
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Re: Theoretical Welsh Network

Postby TheObserver » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:58 pm

spencer pugh wrote:Since retiring, my hobby has been to try to produce a theoretical railway network for the whole of Wales, based upon the use and re-use of existing and disused lines. I attach a copy of my work to date (together with a few tongue-in-cheek route changes of my own!).
As I am an overseas member I have limited opportunities to meet and exchange ideas with other enthusiasts or to undertake field studies. My work has therefore been based almost entirely on books and information available on the internet.
I hope that some members may find the results of my hobby interesting,
and I welcome comments and suggestions for correction or improvement.

Woww! Congratulations.
With a touch of local knowledge, I would ask if you were aware that the Swansea District Line (SDL)[Double Track]: Briton Ferry[junction], Llandarcy[former halt], Felin Fran[former halt], Llangyfelach[former station], Pont Lliw[former station], un-named former junction: from the former Grovesend Colliery Loop [from the south to the west bound SDL track], multi-arch viaduct crossing the River Loughor, an un-named junction[double track, swings north to join/ merge northwards with the [now single track] Central Wales Line (CWL) a little to the south of Pontarddulais, the SDL continues west, turning south-west to join the [now double track] Central Wales Line onward to Llangennech & Bynea. This is potentially better understood by looking at: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.70495 ... a=!3m1!1e3

If you were already aware of this existing and currently used (freight only) junction between the westbound SDL & the northbound CWL, then I shall understand that you have chosen not to incorporate this junction into your 'Theoretical Welsh Network'.

The SDL was built 1912/13 to facilitate High Speed Boat trains between Fishguard Harbour & London capturing Passenger & Mail traffic from the then Atlantic Liners, stopping off whilst en route to Liverpool.
    Correction follows:
    As far as I can see from current traffic flows the SDL is predominately freight with (for example) two eastbound passenger trains and two westbound passenger trains today (Tuesday, 04 April 2017) with different timings on different days of the week:
    Carmarthen (05.47) - Manchester Piccadilly (10.15),
    Newport, Gwent 10.40) - Fishguard Harbour (13.15),
    Fishguard Harbour (13.29) - Cardiff Central (15.59),
    Manchester Piccadilly (19.30) - Carmarthen (01.13), with all traffic appearing to be restricted to 40 miles per hour. (see here)
    Correction ends.
What are your intentions for the current [double track] South Wales Main Line: Briton Ferry >> Neath >> Skewen >> Llansamlet >> Swansea (High Street)? Albeit that Swansea High Street is a dead-end terminus station, involving the drivers of onward passenger traffic for West Wales 'changing ends' and proceeding to Gowerton, Llanelli etc., etc.

A bit more local knowledge:
One of the local Welsh Assembly Members has mooted the idea of re-opening the former Landor station, which is within walking distance of Swansea's Liberty Stadium, the home of Swansea City Football Club and the Osprey's Rugby Club. Whilst the former station entrance can be seen on this image, I know not what exists at track level!

JohnG. TheObserver,
John :: TheObserver
Swansea, South West Wales

Swansea Railway Modellers Group: http://www.smrg.org.uk
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Re: Theoretical Welsh Network

Postby spencer pugh » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:57 pm

JohnG wrote
I would ask if you were aware that the Swansea District Line (SDL) ....[Double Track]


John,
My “Circle Line” proposal uses the SDL line to link Briton Ferry with Llanelli [the junctions at the western end are Morlais East Junction? and Morlais South Junction?] and proposes Llandarcy as a “through station” to serve both Neath and Swansea thus avoiding the cul-de-sac of Swansea High Street.
I am still researching the Landore route as a part of my proposed “North Gower” line. Finding information on the levels of the various trackbeds and whether it is feasible to link them to Llandarcy is the current challenge. It keeps me out of mischief !
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