Cambrian-owned GWR wagons?

Locomotives, coaches, and wagons

Cambrian-owned GWR wagons?

Postby NCB » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:12 pm

Just received some Cambrian drawings from the NRM. One intrigues me. It's of a 5 plank wagon, and although definitely a Cambrian drawing, labelled September 1912, it's described as "GWR 10 ton open goods wagon". Looking at the details, it seems to me it's an O11, complete with GWR self-contained buffers..

So, did the Cambrian buy wagons from the GWR? The O11 was introduced in 1912, so it would have been brand new.

Which opens up other questions, such as did the Cambrian buy any other GWR wagons?

Ideas welcome.


Nigel
NCB
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:22 pm

Re: Cambrian-owned GWR wagons?

Postby Newport_rod » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:04 am

Interesting question Nigel. At that time the GWR was very short of open wagons itself (see History of Great Western Railway Goods Wagons OPC 1986 A. G. Atkins et al p279) and was having to both hire them in and contract construction out to others (see TNA Ref. RAIL 252/1682 Contract between Metropolitan Amalgamated Railway Carriage and Wagon Co Ltd and Great Western Railway Company for supply of one thousand 10 ton open goods wagons; with specification, October 1911) so I wonder whether the GWR was in a position (or indeed inclined) to build for the Cambrian. Could the Cambrian wagons just be to GWR designs?
Visit the website of Llanastr, my Layout http://llanastr.webs.com/, my club http://www.newportmrs.co.uk and the local area group of the Scalefour Society http://www.freewebs.com/nagnag/
User avatar
Newport_rod
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:38 pm
Location: Above the Hillfield Tunnel.

Re: Cambrian-owned GWR wagons?

Postby Noel » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:39 pm

As a bit of wild speculation, given that the GW was buying from the trade about then, could this drawing be from the Cambrian Wagon Co. rather than the Cambrian Railways? Were statutory railway companies at that time legally permitted to build for other railways that were not subsidiaries? I would have thought it would be outside the scope of their articles of association and likely to cause a lot of objections from the trade.

Also, O11 had DC brake gear; did the Cambrian Railways ever use this?
Noel
User avatar
Noel
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Cambrian-owned GWR wagons?

Postby NCB » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:09 pm

Definitely Cambrian Railways, not Cambrian Wagon Co. Usual Cambrian features, such as stamped Cambrian Railways Cambrian Works, Oswestry; Carriage and Waggon Department.

If the GWR was short of capacity, then I wonder about the following possibilities:-
1) They lent the Cambrian the drawings.
2) The Cambrian used spare capacity to build some for the GWR (unlikely).
3) Outside builders building for the GWR also built some for the Cambrian.

The drawing doesn't show the brake gear (everything but). As a pure guess I'd say 3) is the most likely.

Nigel
NCB
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:22 pm

Re: Cambrian-owned GWR wagons?

Postby Penrhos1920 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:26 pm

The GWR did build wagons for the Rhymney and Taff Vale just before the Grouping, so it is possible that they built some for other Welsh railways. IIRC the designs involved were O11 opens, V16 vans and a 3 plank dropside.
Modelling the Alexandra (Newport & South Wales) Docks & Railway, Barry Railway and Rhymney Railway at Penrhos Junctions in SF4.
GWR short (4 & 6) coaches.
http://www.penrhos.me.uk

Image
User avatar
Penrhos1920
 
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:39 pm
Location: Teesside - the birth place of railways

Re: Cambrian-owned GWR wagons?

Postby NCB » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:44 pm

Penrhos1920 wrote:The GWR did build wagons for the Rhymney and Taff Vale just before the Grouping, so it is possible that they built some for other Welsh railways. IIRC the designs involved were O11 opens, V16 vans and a 3 plank dropside.


Yep, I wondered if the Rhymney and Taff Vale purchases was linked to the GWR being about to take them over. The wagon shown in the Rhymney Drawings book is an O18, as it has a so-called sack door (tapered foot). The drawing has a slight mistake in it; the inside of the bottom plank of the door should be parallel to the outside, i.e. sloping, not vertical as shown in the drawing.

The Cambrian drawing is of an O11, with a vertical bottom plank to the door.

Nigel
NCB
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:22 pm


Return to Rolling Stock

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron