GW Cardiff Division coach working 1930s

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GW Cardiff Division coach working 1930s

Postby Penrhos1920 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:03 pm

I would like to know what GW coach sets existed in the Cardiff Division in the 1930s. So far I know that there were 16 5 coach sets and five b-sets that were specifically ordered for the Cardiff Division. I assume that these were to replace older absorbed stock. Three of the B-sets were labelled Cardiff Division No.40, 41 & 49, so it appears that there were a lot of fixed formation. Looking at photos there were also a lot of old GW clerestories in use; were these spares and strengtheners or allocated to fixed sets?
Modelling the Alexandra (Newport & South Wales) Docks & Railway, Barry Railway and Rhymney Railway at Penrhos Junctions in SF4.
GWR short (4 & 6) coaches.
http://www.penrhos.me.uk

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Re: GW Cardiff Division coach working 1930s

Postby chrisf » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:12 am

This is like a jigsaw with missing pieces.

Sets 10 - 19 were made up from the following: D101 brake thirds 5517 - 5536, C56 thirds 5541 - 5560, composites 6567 - 6576. Sets 20 - 15 were made up from the following: D110 brake thirds 5577 - 5588, C61 thirds 5565 - 5576, E142 composites 6644 - 5539. I regret that I can shed no further light on B sets but it is clear that there must have been at least nine. Additional stock was sent to South Wales during World War 2, including at least two 4 coach sets from London and quite a lot of full firsts which were declassified in 1940. The use of stock built for general service should not be ruled out either.

My own interest relates to the post 1953 period, when the Cardiff Valleys sets were completely reformed into "standard five coach sets" with older stock being withdrawn and the B sets dispersed. Some absorbed stock was still running around at this time but probably not in sets.

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Re: GW Cardiff Division coach working 1930s

Postby Penrhos1920 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:57 pm

Chris,
Thanks for that information. What is the source please?

Why do you think there were at least 9 B-sets in the Cardiff Division? Could some of them have been absorbed stock? The B-sets I know of, which can be identified from the GWR Carriage Lot list are:

No. 40 6411 & 6412 E140 built 9/1930
No.41 6413 & 6414 E140 built 9/1930
No.49 6983 & 6984 E140 built 5/1931
No.xx 6812 & 6813 E147 built 11/1935
No.yy 6814 & 6815 E147 built 11/1935

Given that the first 3 B-sets arrived in Cardiff about the same time as Sets 20 to 25 I conclude that they replaced existing sets formed of pre grouping stock.

There was also a pair of brake thirds, diagram D91, nos. 4678 & 4679 that were allocated to Cardiff Division when built in 1925.

thanks
Richard
Modelling the Alexandra (Newport & South Wales) Docks & Railway, Barry Railway and Rhymney Railway at Penrhos Junctions in SF4.
GWR short (4 & 6) coaches.
http://www.penrhos.me.uk

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Re: GW Cardiff Division coach working 1930s

Postby chrisf » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:28 pm

Richard

The sources of the contents of the sets are notes in the Railway Observer in the 1950s, collated with vehicle numbers in the lot list in Harris. I'm not sure that I could pick out particular references at this distance in time without a great deal of rummaging.

There was an awful lot of pre-grouping stock to replace, mostly four-wheelers. The B set is, I am sure, an invention of the GWR. The numbering of the sets suggests that there were at least 10 [I can't count] with the identities of nos 40, 41 and 49 known. I had picked up on the pair of D91s which used apparently to be part of London set 17 and according to the RO went to South Wales during the war and picked up a new middle in the process.

Unless I have been looking in the wrong places all these years there is very little in print about this subject. I believe that much of what the RO published was submitted by the late R P Walford of Bovey Tracey and it is probable that he submitted much more than was published, editorial judgement being what it is.

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